In Conversation with Connie Campsie: ‘I’m having to kill off past versions of myself to make space for the new one’.
Connie pops up on my computer screen full of apologies for being a teensy bit late, and calling herself a moron. The conversation that followed proved she is far from one. After discovering that weirdly we only live a stone's throw away from each other, Connie gave me such a thoughtful insight into her life as an artist. We talk growing up with songwriter parents (who didn’t like to play music in the house), turning 27 and realising you’re still waiting for your Saturn returns, and how this EP release has validated her experience taking up space in the queer community.
Connie:
Hey!
Amy:
Hey Connie!
Connie:
How are you?
Amy:
I'm alright. I'm coming towards the end of a cold, so if I start choking and coughing, I'm really sorry. It’s been like two weeks of this horrible cough, I’m so over it.
Connie:
Oh my God, it's all good. It's all good. I recently had Covid, so I know how you feel!
Amy:
So frustrating isn't it? I'm just waking up every morning like, ‘oh, nope, still not over it’.
Connie:
Yeah like ‘this is still happening…’. Oh, bless you. Sorry. That's shit.
Amy:
That's okay. How's your week been? How are you doing in general?
Connie:
Yeah, good. I've just been really busy with sessions, to be honest. It's just been a bit mental, but if I'm not busy I get a bit existential, so that's good.
Amy:
I'm the same. Are you based in London?
Connie:
I am, yeah.
Amy:
Oh whereabouts?
Connie:
I'm in North London.
Amy:
Oh wait… me too…
It’s at this point Connie and I work out that we are basically neighbours…
Amy:
Oh my God!
Connie:
That's so funny. I know exactly where you are. I'm a bit further North. Oh my God, that's so weird…
Amy:
Yeah I've just moved in here with a friend.
Connie:
That's crazy. What are the chances of that? That's mental.
Amy:
Thank you so much for chatting with me today. This is so lovely getting to speak to you and I'm excited to pick your brain about your new EP that's just come out. What was it like growing up in North London? Both your parents are songwriters, is that correct?
Connie:
Yeah, that's right, oh my God, she's done her research.
Amy:
Hahaha, always. I’m so interested though as to what it was like growing up around music and with that as an inspiration? Was it something that you were always thinking ‘this is what I wanna do?’, or did you have another career path in mind when you were younger?
Connie:
I think the thing about having two parents as songwriters or musicians... I think being a musician is different. So many people play instruments, but the fact they were songwriters and that being their job just made it not this pipe dream thing. I hear of people being like, ‘my family all worked in the music business and then I wanted to be an artist’ - but it was never like that for me. We didn't listen to a lot of music growing up, but we were always encouraged to make it, which I think is kind of weird. There were always instruments in the house, and me and my dad would have meetings with each other - we would call them meetings - where I would play him new songs that I thought were really cool that came out outside of the charts and we'd sit and talk about it. The whole culture of making music in my house was very free. I dunno how else to describe it. It didn't really come as a shock when I started doing it.
I remember my mum being really moved when she found out that I was pursuing it because me and my mum are very similar. My mum's very much an Artist, like she only ever listens to herself or Kate Bush. She's kind of mental. She's like 'You are an artist and you feel these things!', then my dad is more of a pop writer. I think that I sort of fell in between two chairs in a way that felt good. I wanted to learn how to properly structure a song and how to make it feel satisfying from my dad, and my mum was kind of like, 'yes, but you have this rich inner world, you need to express yourself.' I feel very lucky that I grew up with those circumstances. It was always very supported and encouraged.
Amy:
That's really cool to have the balance as well, somewhere you can fit yourself in the middle of those two things.
Connie:
It's literally perfect.
Amy:
Do you feel like there was a lot of expectation on you to go into this? Or did you have free reign to do what you wanted to do?
Connie:
No, there was no expectation. I've always been very artistic, even as a really small child. I remember once I was like six and it was raining outside, so I thought I'm gonna open my window and have a sketchbook and draw. My dad was like, 'what are you doing?' Haha. I've always very much had that kind of sensibility. I'd sit in the wardrobe with a Walkman and listen to CDs like Busted - let's be real, Sleeping With the Light On - being like 'I feel things' even as a child. I think what's been more interesting is comparing my parents' career paths to mine purely based on the difference of the industry. My parents were in the industry in the late eighties / nineties so they’re like 'you need to get a record deal'. I've been teaching them about the industry as a kind of pep talk to myself. 'It's okay, I can use TikTok, it's fine’. Yeah there was no expectation. It was more that there was just space for like the dream.
There wasn't that at my school though. I was at a very academic school and they really tried to bully it out of me. If I didn't have my parents, I think that I would have suffered and swallowed the dream. School hammered the fact that the statistical likelihood of you making it is really, really slim. Yes, that's true, but a hundred percent of my parents did. I'm still in the position now where you know, this is a tough industry, but if I stop now I definitely will never get anywhere.
Amy:
Exactly, and you'll never know, you always live with that regret as well. I totally understand that schools can be so tough putting you all in a really academic box and being like, 'this is the way'. It's frustrating. It's great that you were able to ignore those calls and push through the way you wanted to go.
Connie:
A hundred percent. It was one of the major life choice moments for me, especially at that age. Everything's so big when you're 17, isn't it? I thought, I'm gonna leave school and I'm gonna go to music college and I'm gonna leave my small town and move to London. I really thought quite a lot of myself. I was all 'I wear all black clothing and I listen to indie music, and I'm going to like college in East London'. I thought I was really cool... but the overarching theme of my late teens and early twenties has been being in tune with that voice that tells you what you should do.
My mum used to always say to me, and I don't necessarily agree with this, but she says 'your anxiety is your superpower'. Really what it is, is that my body tells me no before my brain does, and that is one of the metrics that I move through making music. I just have to be like, 'how does this make me feel?’. Sometimes I don't listen to it, and then I just end up regretting it because my body tells me no. It's been a major theme for me for this year, to be honest. I think I'm leaning on my intuition more than ever and it's terrifying because, can I trust this? What am I doing? But it feels right. It feels right.
Amy:
That's really good to hear. I can sympathise with you there. I've struggled this past year with panic attacks, it's just horrible, isn't it? And I completely love your mum's reaction to that, like saying it's your superpower, because you do just have to lean into it sometimes and use it as your own way to figure out how you're going to get through the world and what decisions you're going to make as well. It's great you've got that support from your parents as well in that sense.
Connie:
Yeah, it's turning those awful moments into data points, isn't it? If it's making my body react in this way, if I'm having a panic attack, if I'm feeling anxious, is your body telling you what you need to do? It's kind of a path then. It's a roadmap.
Amy:
So thinking about your musical inspirations, I was listening to your tracks and I was hearing a lot of Megan Bülow, and also a bit of Taylor Swift in 'Burner' in the way you were writing that and the way you were singing it. Who do you think your main inspirations are and where do you take musical inspiration from?
Connie:
I think I've always been a song person as opposed to an album person. It's something that I've had to learn since I grew up on compilation CDs that I took from my sister's room. I think a lot of people have cooler frames of references where they're like, yeah well I grew up and I got my parents Fleetwood Mac records. That wasn't me. My parents didn't like playing music in the house, they didn't like listening to the radio because their whole life was music, so they didn't want to do that. It meant I got all of my cues from the charts and flicking through the music channel on TV and watching music videos. Music has become this very visual thing for me.
I really see myself more as a full artist that creates a world and music is just an element of that thing. I don't really define myself as a musician and I never really have. When it comes to musical inspiration, there are more songs that I pluck from as opposed to 'I grew up listening to this album, or I really listened to this artist’. I did listen a lot to two tracks from Wilco's album 'Summer Teeth', which were 'She's a Jar' and also, 'A Shot in the Arm'. Sonically they don't really align with my music, but if I hadn't listened to those songs, 'Now that I Know You' would not exist.
There is also a Radiohead influence in that, which I think is quite obvious, but I think everyone's influenced by Radiohead so I feel like that doesn't count haha. I have a playlist of songs that are inspiring. 'Lazy Eye' by Silver Sun Pickups is on there and is a song that I bring to every single session I'm ever in. That guitar tone is amazing. We were quite inspired by the third record by Haim for 'Never Get It Right' because of the delivery and the looseness of it. I'm really trying to lean into that sort of delivery. Yeah… actually now thinking about it, for such a British sounding thing, it's actually been quite influenced by American music.
Amy:
That's so interesting to hear because it does depend totally on how and when you first started listening to music, like you said with all the compilations, I'm just the same. It was very much like what CD is in the car? What are we gonna listen to on this journey?
Connie:
Yeah and now it's spotify playlists right? I think it's kind of supercharged this generation by just having this untold access all of the time. People don't care about music genres anymore. I was talking about it with somebody yesterday, the new genre is like 'mood'.
Amy:
Yeah, that's so true.
Connie:
Right? It's all mood based.
Amy:
It’s all based on a sense of how you are feeling and what do you want to emotionally listen to at this time?
Connie:
It’s also great that people don't give a fuck. Like Billie Eilish… what genre of music is Billie Eilish? Like, what is it?
Amy:
It's so broad!
Connie:
Right? People are inspired by the things that they listen to, and people listen to a plethora of different things now. I think it's one dimensional when people are like 'well we are this kind of band or this kind of artist'.
Amy:
Circling back to your EP now that's just been released and has been out for just over a month. Congratulations! What has the reception been like? How has it been having all those songs out in the world now?
Connie:
Uhhh, it's been sooo good. Honestly, I think so much of the EP is talking about my journey as a bisexual person. I've always felt very torn about talking about it because being bisexual is very strange. You're either not quite straight enough or you are not quite gay enough. Two years ago I went to Pride for the first time and the only reason I thought I could go to Pride was because I was walking in the parade with my friend's trans-owned makeup brand. I thought it's ok I'm not doing it for me, I'm doing it for all of the people who are trans, they've got it harder than I have because I'm hetero passing, so I'm fine. So now actually leaning in and talking about these songs about women and those experiences, I was not convinced that they were gonna be released because I'd written so many songs like that and I just felt like this isn't even going to get released.
Now that it is, I have been collecting lesbians online and I absolutely love it. It's made me feel like I can be in this subculture and I am part of this subculture. Releasing the music makes such a big difference to just writing it, it's so hard to explain. I guess it's the same if you write an interview and then it's out and you're like, well it looks different now because now other people see it. I think the reception from the queer community has been extremely accepting, which has been so nice.
It also got really great support on Spotify, which is just a huge blessing because, you know, DSPs just like rule the planet now, don't they? It's been cool to see where it ends up on a playlist as well. It helps me sort of like place the song? One of my songs got onto the ‘End Credits’ playlist, which is super anthemic, and the other one was on 'My Life is a Movie'. I know who I am when I listen to those playlists so I'm connecting with these people that are experiencing the same thing that I'm experiencing. Having that context has been really affirming.
Amy:
Totally, they've sat in the lanes that you've wanted them to go in?
Connie:
Yeah! Yes, that's exactly where I've wanted it to go. So often you're trying to explain to people who you are and what your music is. So to actually see it there, it’s like ‘that's what I meant!’.
Amy:
Yeah. That's really cool. That must be so affirming.
Connie:
It's crazy. 'Cause again it's a visual thing too. I think that's why it feels good for me because I see it in the context with all of the other songs around and I'm like ‘yes, that's exactly how I saw it - that's what I was thinking of’. In the 'My Life is a Movie' playlist the first few tracks are 'My Kink is Karma' by Chappell Roan, 'American Teenager' by Ethel Cain, and 'Time to Pretend' by MGMT... oh and 'Linger' by The Cranberries. I'm just like 'YES, put me in there with all of those people’, that feels amazing.
Amy:
Segueing from talking about the sort of people you want your music to sit around, when you are picturing your fans listening to your music, where do you think they're listening? Are they in bed? Are they having a cry out the window moment? Are they on the bus? Can you visualise people actually listening to your music?
Connie:
Yes, but it's funny because the first thing I thought of was at a show. When I listen to songs I'm imagining myself playing them. It also depends on what the song is. I had a lot of people message me saying they're listening to it on the bus, or the train. I think that's good because the EP is so introspective, it's not a party EP, and it's not something that you just put on in the background if you've got friends over, that'd be a bit like... what are you doing? Haha. I think that my lyrical tone of voice is so personal and sort of honest and at times quite abrupt.
Especially with 'Burner'. It's a very brutal documentation of my past relationship and where it's put me in my life. I think most people listen to it alone. I think that I love that about my music, but what I'm trying to do now is expand it and be like, okay, well how can I make this sort of like a more kind of a communal listening experience whilst also sort of maintaining my manner of writing.
Amy:
It must be hard to find that balance but I think it will take you on an interesting journey to try and achieve that.
Connie:
Yeah. It's been a crazy year. I think I'm going through a year of immense change and transformation. I'm having to kill off these past versions of myself to make space for the new one. It's funny with EPs because I wrote this EP 'Now That I Know You', and the first song was written at the end of 2022.
Amy:
Yeah a lot can change in two years, you can be a totally different person.
Connie:
Completely different. With the release of the music as well, it pushes you that much further forward. It's funny talking to you about it because I still feel really connected with the EP. Obviously it didn't come out that long ago, but for me I'm already thinking ‘what's the the next thing?’.
Amy:
I’m intrigued, how old are you?
Connie:
Sighs... I am 27 babe.
Amy:
Yep knew it, me too…
Connie:
Oh God, what is this age!? Right? Don't think I'm absolutely insane… I mean, I am... but I spoke to a psychic recently because I was like 'oh I’m going through my Saturn returns, like what the fuck is happening this year?' And she was like, don't worry, you're too early for it... So we're not there yet hun.
Amy:
Nooo what! Surely not, what else could explain this year…
Connie:
Yeah. Haha yeah surely not. Surely this is it?
Amy:
I can totally relate to you saying you've got to kill off these old versions of yourself. When I was 24, 25, I really felt like this is who I am, this is who I'm meant to be, yeah I've finally found myself. That was when I first started my career in music, after coming from a background in TV. I felt like I knew what I wanted to do and had finally found my passion. You then think all these things are going to happen to you, and then suddenly you're two years down the line you're sometimes not much has changed? It's hard to figure out who you are, who you want to be and where do you wanna go. It's so confusing. It's such a weird age.
Connie:
I think especially when you're making music there's also this immense pressure on women and non-binary fem people in the music industry to have all of the answers really young. To be Lorde, to be Billie Eilish, to be Taylor Swift. These are people that were successful from the ages of like 14. I didn't know shit when I was 14. I didn't know shit when I was 21. I'm gonna look back at 27 and think the same. As you were saying, I'm always looking for that 'I've arrived here' feeling. With this EP I felt like I’d arrived - at 'Indie Dream Girl'. That's what I've wanted to be for such a long time, but now it's shifting again and I'm like for fucks sake, can't I just be here? But I can't, my body says no. I'm ready for the next thing. I'm trying to look at it like expansion.
I've been really struggling to write lyrics recently, which has always been the thing that's come to me so easily. I was in a session the other day and I was talking to the co-writer saying how I've been feeling. He was just like, I think your standards for yourself have just changed. That blew my mind…! I just think across the board, my standards for myself have just changed. That comes with the release of anything. It feels like it's the beginning of an era because I've released something, but for me it's the end of an era because it's done. I'm going through a big expansion period right now. It's very taxing.
Amy:
That genuinely sounds exhausting, but it will mean you're creating things that maybe are a bit outside of where your boundaries would've lied before and that is always a good thing. It could only be a good thing.
Connie:
Yeah, that a hundred percent it is.
Amy:
You were due to play a show recently, can you tell me about that?
Connie:
I had a headline show booked and I had to cancel it because I had Covid. That sucked. Then an opportunity came through to do a headline slot for an indie night. I didn't even know it was a headline slot, I was just like ‘oh fuck ok I guess I'm on the poster’...but it was during Glasto week. I should be lying to you and telling you it was amazing and there was a packed out room, but it wasn't. It's funny though, it made me smile because this is the story that people tell you about that's like 'oh I was playing to nobody and then, and then I was playing to somebody.'
Also no matter what, and who's in the crowd, I always want to deliver a really good show. There was a moment where one of the guitars wasn't working during my song 'Uneasy', but because there weren't that many people in the room, we just sang it acoustically together. It was this beautiful moment where I thought, this is why I do this. It doesn't matter if there's 10,000 or 10 people in the audience. I just love doing this. If I manage to connect with one person and you really feel it, that's the best feeling in the world. It's worth all of the sweating, logging around your gear and playing shows, getting paid like in beers and whatever. You're just kinda like, I don't give a fuck, this is worth it. You know?
Amy:
Those moments must be so nice. There's a quote, and I'm gonna butcher this, but it's something about the life you live is made up of just the day to day. So kind of similarly, it's in those little moments, in those connections, even if it's not perfect, that's what spurs you on to do what you do. That's so special.
Connie:
I think that's the same with being creative as well. You have to love the process because so often the results are not rewarding in the way that you thought they were gonna be. The release of the EP was very much like 'ah it's done, it's out', but the process of continuously failing in the creative process and then bouncing back every time was far more of an enriching and valuable experience. I'm trying to learn to enjoy the process more because that's as you say, where the gold is. All the other stuff is just kind of superfluous.
Amy:
What have you got coming up? Any more shows or new music?
Connie:
I'm playing a queer night next week and I feel so honoured to be asked to be in that space and that they trust me being in that space as well. It's just gonna be me and my guitar, which is my comfort zone because I just basically get to talk about myself all the time and play these songs haha. Also trying to get my calendar booked up with doing sessions for the next EP.
Amy:
That sounds amazing, I hope it goes well! Thank you so much for chatting to me today. It's honestly been so nice to meet you.
Connie:
No, thank you!
Amy:
I feel like I hear so much of myself in you, it's so reassuring
Connie:
Me too! Like we're the same?
Amy:
Especially because you're literally round the corner from me right now, that's so weird I still can't get over it!
Connie:
I know it's so mad!
Amy:
I hope you have a lovely weekend.
Connie:
Haha sweet, ok thank you so much Amy!